[Corpora-List] Pop Lyrics Corpus

Raf Salkie R.M.Salkie at brighton.ac.uk
Tue Jun 2 21:55:23 CEST 2015


In one of his last posts on this list, my late colleague and friend Adam Kilgarriff made some apt comments about copyright law in his typical forthright style. Here they are again:

In an innocent world view, the law says what is allowed and what is not. The more I see of how the legal profession works, the clearer it is that it's all political, in the sense that the judgements that build the case law (at least in UK) are made based on how well the lawyers played the game, how much money was involved, who had a sniff of how much money they might make.

It's not about what is legal (which is always, in this area, underspecified), it is about risk management.

If no-one sees a money-making opportunity, there is very little legal risk since no-one will take you to court. If you're a big organisation, you can always be taken to court and sued for large sums. This has had horrible consequences for the JISC group at ISPRA: they are part of the EU, a very large organisation, and have had their work restricted by ambulance-chasing lawyers with a glint in their eyes for winning plump settlements.

What you might be willing to do personally - given that you are probably, not, as an individual, worth suing, and your motivation for doing interesting work is high - is very different to what a (probably) rich organisation like your university might be willing to do. If you want to do something, don't ask! (Specially not the university lawyers. You'll probably never get an answer - even more frustrating than a simple 'no’)

Hope that helps. — Raphael Salkie, Brighton

On 2 Jun 2015, at 21:42, Burger, John D. <john at mitre.org> wrote:


> Most online discussions of copyright quickly devolve into vague conversations like this.
>
> Can anyone delineate exactly what the concern over copyright is here, by pointing to a SPECIFIC law in a SPECIFIC country that might be broken? Thanks.
>
> - John Burger
> MITRE
>
>> On Jun 1, 2015, at 06:41, Krishnamurthy, Ramesh <r.krishnamurthy at aston.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> hi Matías
>>
>> much of our social behaviour is based on human values, including kindness, consideration,
>> and morality, and not on the law... in most cases, few of us know what the 'actual law'
>> is, in relation to our day-to-day activities and interactions...
>>
>> ...but, as i thought i had suggested, 'ethics' has also become an integral aspect of
>> student and researcher paths in academia? so i would think copyright is of highly
>> *practical* relevance and importance to the *students* who originally asked this
>> question?
>>
>> Did you mean Mark *Davies* of http://corpus.byu.edu/ ?
>> We are indeed all subject to the laws of our own countries...
>> e.g. child pornography may be legal in some countries,
>> but if it is found on your computer in UK, you can be arrested...
>>
>> best
>> ramesh
>> ________________________________
>> From: Matías Guzmán Naranjo [mortem.dei at gmail.com]
>> Sent: 01 June 2015 11:27
>> To: Krishnamurthy, Ramesh
>> Cc: Corpora at uib.no
>> Subject: Re: [Corpora-List] Pop Lyrics Corpus
>>
>> Do we have anything else to go by but the actual law? Things like the corpus by Mark Turner might be illegal in some countries, but are perfectly legal in the US, so we should not use it? I don't see the point of discussing moral issues regarding copyright, only legal ones.
>>
>> 2015-06-01 11:58 GMT+02:00 Krishnamurthy, Ramesh <r.krishnamurthy at aston.ac.uk<mailto:r.krishnamurthy at aston.ac.uk>>:
>> Hi Matías
>>
>> I'm sorry, but isn't your argument a bit like getting something second-hand,
>> and not checking if it was stolen in the first place? It may be what most of
>> us do most of the time, but this does not mean it is legally sound?
>>
>> Using/acquiring/re-using anything involves an ethical aspect.
>> It may be unlikely that you will be detected or punished, but
>> that is not the only consideration?
>>
>> Pop song lyrics are certainly intellectual property, and the lyricist(s)
>> are usually credited (unless they are 'traditional' lyrics, in which case
>> they may be ascribed to "anon.") for every track released. We are in a
>> period of rapid change, especially in terms of the internet, and the ways
>> in which music is published. But this does not exempt us from thinking
>> about copyright issues?
>>
>> Most universities require students and researchers to incorporate
>> a section on ethical issues, and every research project requires
>> clearance from some ethical board or procedures. In fact, this
>> area has been strengthened in the past decade or two, both in the UK
>> (to my certain knowledge), and in other countries, according to my
>> frequent contacts with students and researchers studying or working
>> in them.
>>
>> So I think it is highly unwise to propagate the idea *to students* that
>> Intellectual Property Rights (whether or not legalised as copyright under
>> some nation's law) can be dismissed so lightly? If nothing else, they
>> may be penalised in terms of marks, or their work may actually be
>> rejected for examination/accreditation purposes?
>>
>> best
>> ramesh
>>
>> ---
>> Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 17:12:32 +0200
>> From: Matías Guzmán Naranjo <mortem.dei at gmail.com<mailto:mortem.dei at gmail.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [Corpora-List] Pop Lyrics Corpus
>> To: evalacroix at free.fr<mailto:evalacroix at free.fr>
>> Cc: "corpora at uib.no<mailto:corpora at uib.no>" <Corpora at uib.no<mailto:Corpora at uib.no>>
>>
>> How could there be a copyright issue in this case though? Unless those
>> sites are infringing copy right (which I doubt they are under any law), you
>> should be fine.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora
>> Corpora mailing list
>> Corpora at uib.no
>> http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora
> Corpora mailing list
> Corpora at uib.no
> http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
> System on behalf of the University of Brighton.
> For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/
> ___________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. For more information see http://www.brighton.ac.uk/is/spam/ ___________________________________________________________



More information about the Corpora mailing list